Forum

[faradina]

I have already posted some of these on other threads/categories but I wanted to post them here too as this is the category that one would logically look in for content creation ideas.

For me, rewriting and spinning are two very different things. When I rewrite, I rearrange the ideas, paragraphs, and sentences aside from rewriting the sentences so that the rewritten article is effectively a new article. Spinning, on the other hand, is simply rewriting the sentences without rearranging anything.

When I have an original article that I wrote myself and want to make the most of it, I do three rewrites. So I would then have four articles in hand. The best of the bunch goes to my site :); in most cases this would be the original article, but there have been cases where one of the rewritten ones is better (it all depends what mood I am in when writing and rewriting - some days it comes easy and some days it comes really hard!). The second best goes to ezinearticles, the third gets spun for submission to other article directories and sites ( a unique spun version for each directory/site ), the fourth gets spun on AMA ( it does not have to be AMA, it can also be Rapid Free Traffic, or SEO Link Vine, or a similar service).

When I am using a PLR article, I do four rewrites. Again, the best of the bunch goes to my site, and so on, as described above.

I know, I know, this is a lot of work! Creating content is never really easy, and that applies even when you outsource it. When you outsource, you have to find a good prolific writer and finding one takes time. You may have to go through several writers before you get one that gives you the results that you want. Of course, your expectations need to be reasonable (I have seen a job ad that is asking for 4 800-word articles and 10 400-word articles for a $10 payment and there's a deadline. I mean, I would not be expecting good articles in this case).

 

[stefan1601]

I agree that $10 for 7200 words is way too cheap. So what is the minimum rate which you would expect a good article?

 

[michellerana]

Thanks for sharing this, Fara!

I agree that $10 for 7200 words is way too cheap. So what is the minimum rate which you would expect a good article?

It actually depends on your niche. Good Elance writers usually charge US$10-$15 per article on general topics (like dog problems or relationship advice sites) but higher for specialized niches like 'World of Warcraft'.

 

[jmpruitt]

It really depends on the quality that you are looking for. I went through over 20 writers before I got the one I have now (and he was right in front of my face the whole time, being a former employee from my Cafe Manager days...), But a really good writer will charge more. I often pay $20/article or more but the quality is way better, and they give me higher conversions. Of course, he also does a lot of the rewriting and spinning for me.


Rewriting articles is really a great way to leverage the same content for different purposes. Although it takes time as you said, it is still faster than writing fresh content for everything.

Rewritten articles can be used for link building, free reports, ebooks, videos, and pretty much anything else that you do online, without having to get fresh content all the time.

 

[BillJ]

I'm a writer myself and charge $2 per 100 words for general articles and for specialized stuff i.e. one that requires lots of research it can be as high as $5 per 100 words. Plus with cheap $1 per 1000 word article writers you get what you pay for...trash in most cases.

 

[faradina]

With google concentrating on bringing up more high-quality sites in search results, the market for cheap articles will dwindle and writers who produce really good articles will reign supreme.

Google's move is in favor of good writers. There will be, I hope, no more fly-by-night writers - these entities are the bane of the literary industry on the internet and the scourge of internet users looking for relevant and accurate information - and writing content for the internet will again become worthwhile for those who make the effort to produce good-quality articles.

 

[BillJ]

Exactly Faradina! what you said is exactly what has been taking place over the past few years and with Google constantly focusing on ranking websites with good content higher in its SERP's fly-by-night writers are going out of business.

I should also add that using articles just to build back links from article directories is worthless if your articles are junk. Since search engines such as Google refuses to index junk and only considers articles which are discussed and tagged in social networking sites such as twitter.

 

[jmpruitt]

I agree. I have seen a lot of people wondering about using article directories any more since the Google change last week.

Here is the point, if you are submitting quality content to these sites, you can still get them ranking. The ones that are getting kicked out are the spam, poorly written, spun content that is giberish.

If you submit good quality content, you will still be able to leverage these sites for rankings (as well as getting some decent traffic through those sites themselves.)

One thing I have done for a while is to set up some of my articles from EZA , Hiubpages, and squidoo lenses in Traffic Travis ( one advantage to TT PRO is unlimited projects, so you can do this)

Over the last few days, I have been tracking a lot of those articles, and I actually saw my rankings go up, simply because I take time to submit good quality content that is engaging people, and then funneling those to my sites.

 

[joshuas]

Here is the point, if you are submitting quality content to these sites, you can still get them ranking.

Right on. If you do this you're ahead of the game so to speak. Google still can't really tell good content from bad very well YET (and I suspect they will never be as good as us superior humans. ;)) but writing for readers is the important takeaway I think most people agree upon.

I do want to make a note though that this doesn't make SEO irrelevant anymore. Separating your article from the pack in terms of quality is one thing, but doing best practices like good use of keywords, headers, etc will help you rank better for your desired search phrase. (oh, lets not forget back links too)

Just thought I'd throw that in to make a distinction for those that might be wondering. :)

Joshua

 

[jmpruitt]

The thing is that google uses a combination of the automated spiders and human reviewers to check content. Those human eyes can tell well written content from giberish. SEO is still valid, and really, what is being targeted with the update is duplicate content,low quality, and scraped content.

simply write good quality content and get good quality backlinks and you will be fine.

 

[clarafaie]

The thing is that google uses a combination of the automated spiders and human reviewers to check content.

I have a very strong feeling that when we are in the "google sandbox" or the "google dance", our sites are actually being scrutinized by the human reviewers.

 

[jmpruitt]

not necessarily, every site goes throught the google dance during the first few months. the sandbox, maybe, Im not sure. usually the ones getting into the sandbox are too aggressive in their link building. I always start slow doing 10-20/day for the first few weeks, then increasing it slowly over time, as my traffic and rankings begin to improve, so that it looks more natural

 

[kdruhl]

Fara and others, here a quick question: When you submit a re-write to EzineArticles, say, where do you link the resource box to? The original article, or a simple landing page? I found that for EZA traffic, an simple landing page converts about 40% higher than another full length article. What's your take on this?

 

[jcdean]

I don't think Google's algorythm can read yet, and I am sure that human reviewers are not scouring the 10,000s of pages that go online every day.

I might be way off but, I think it all comes down to duplicate content. I don't think a algorythm can tell the difference from a poorly written article and a well written one.

I think the google algorythm is being updated to weed out duplicate content, and is getting better at spotting spun content, and scraped content as duplicate. (Auto blogging may be dead)

I think it can compare articles, but will never be able to read and judge them.

So I am thinking that Faradina approach is the best way to go. Thanks for a great post, I think it should be made sticky.

I would also add that pictures, graphs, charts, and relevent links off a page are all important as well.

 

[michellerana]

Fara and others, here a quick question: When you submit a re-write to EzineArticles, say, where do you link the resource box to? The original article, or a simple landing page? I found that for EZA traffic, an simple landing page converts about 40% higher than another full length article. What's your take on this?

I recommend that you link your Ezine articles to your money pages / product review pages. This will improve the ranking of these pages and help monetize your site.

 

[michellerana]

So I am thinking that Faradina approach is the best way to go. Thanks for a great post, I think it should be made sticky.

I agree. This is a very informative and interesting thread :) Thanks Fara! and thank you to all who have posted their comments ;)

I would also add that pictures, graphs, charts, and relevent links off a page are all important as well.

That's a great idea, Jcdean! Anything that would be helpful to your visitors should be added to your pages :)

 

[gradyp]

Another strategy, besides linking to your money pages, might be linking to a "next step" page. This can take one of two forms.

First, say you have a sequence of things to learn. Then the article you submit to EZA would link to the next step in the sequence. For example, your article that you are submitting to EZA might be about reading guitar chord charts. Well, you could link to a page on your site where you go over how to play some common chords.

Another "next step" style, that I got from my brother James, is to write a "what the problem is" article. Then, you would link to a page on your site that is a "why you should do something" page and the product you advertise on the page is the "how to do it". (I think I have this slightly wrong, but if he's still using this, James can explain it better.) It's another type of artcle progression that leads your reader where you want them to go.

 

[faradina]

I personally link to the homepage of two favorite sites from my resource box for my real name. For my aliases, I link to the homepage of the relevant website and to what I think is the best of the articles on that website. This is because I am concentrating more on building a relationship with my readers/visitors first, so I never really try to hit them with an opt in or a hard sell at once.

Ezinearticles managing editor Penny posted A Deeper Dig into Quality that Heightens 3 Areas of Focus on the Ezinearticles blog on March 1. The post discusses the author resource box and links in relation to what qualifies as quality content. I have just come across it and I will surely be taking any necessary action in accordance with the recommendations on the post.

 

[jcdean]

Another strategy, besides linking to your money pages, might be linking to a "next step" page. This can take one of two forms.

First, say you have a sequence of things to learn. Then the article you submit to EZA would link to the next step in the sequence. For example, your article that you are submitting to EZA might be about reading guitar chord charts. Well, you could link to a page on your site where you go over how to play some common chords.

Another "next step" style, that I got from my brother James, is to write a "what the problem is" article. Then, you would link to a page on your site that is a "why you should do something" page and the product you advertise on the page is the "how to do it". (I think I have this slightly wrong, but if he's still using this, James can explain it better.) It's another type of artcle progression that leads your reader where you want them to go.

This make since to me, even if readers didn't follow you all the way to you money pages, you would be passing "link juice" along to you most important pages.

 

[jmpruitt]

actually, he got that a little backwards. what I do is write an article defining what the problem is and why solving it is important for syndication, then I write an article on what they need to learn to do in order to solve the problem, and link to a product that teaches how to do what i just told them they need to learn.

 

[jcdean]

He didn't get it backwards, he is doing things his way.

 

[mack45]

Hi all so what you staff are saying is that if a buyer of the Jetpacks for an example is just not the best writer he better be buying all his articles or learn fast or he is not going to make anything or get ranked much in Google. what I see is that all the articles are well written but all need spun and rewritten to get away from duplicate content. This makes the idea that anybody can be successful using the jet packs very questionable. That is unless he can out source a lot and then the cost is not inline with the ads for the Jetpacks . I figure it will take me close to a hundred articles written to get a full campaign making cash with out sourcing that would cost 1000 to 1500 dollars. Then if I need to redo all the keyword research for new articles I had better be able to do that and know what I am doing also.

 

[jcdean]

Hi all so what you staff are saying is that if a buyer of the Jetpacks for an example is just not the best writer he better be buying all his articles or learn fast or he is not going to make anything or get ranked much in Google. what I see is that all the articles are well written but all need spun and rewritten to get away from duplicate content. This makes the idea that anybody can be successful using the jet packs very questionable. That is unless he can out source a lot and then the cost is not inline with the ads for the Jetpacks . I figure it will take me close to a hundred articles written to get a full campaign making cash with out sourcing that would cost 1000 to 1500 dollars. Then if I need to redo all the keyword research for new articles I had better be able to do that and know what I am doing also.

It dosen't take a 100 well written original articles. re-read Faradina's post again. You start with one very good article and make dozens from it.

 

[jmpruitt]

@JC, the reason I said he got it backwards was he was quoting something I had told him.

@Mac, rewriting the content for your site is probably the hardest part. although it will seem like a huge chore, it does shortcut a lot of the time that it takes to research and brainstorm original articles. Also, as JC said, you don't need to write 100s of articles. I am finding that 1 or 2 articles spun and syndicated get me enough links to rank pretty well in search. Most article sites allow 2 links per submission, so for a 20 page jetpack site, you can get 20 articles spun,

also, it depends on the outsourcing services you use. I just got package for submitting article for $300 that is building links to 3 of my jetpack sites for me. While those are being submitted, i can focus my efforts on building up my blogs more, and getting back to posting on them regularly.

rewriting the articles is hard at first. but like any other skill, the more you practice, the better you will get at it. But, if you start out believing you will fail, you will get what you expect. First step to success should be going through the millionaire mindset. I listen to it at least once a week myself.

 

[mack45]

I agree with what you are saying but I still think that the statement on the sales page for the link pack is a lot misleading. I have my site up and six articles spun to and on the website. But I would like to have fresh content for the squidoos and hubs to build a link push even a small one for each page of the site.

I believe I can write good enough to get it done myself but I have spent the last few years working double shifts to learn to spell then to type then to use the computer then to market. Then to buy a product that is supposed to be able to be set up in four hours and get me to cash. The I knew this was not going to happen for me from the start not even four days work I can still do it but I do not see most people doing this amount of work on a bought project that is supposed to be all there.

It may happen because a lot of people have way more computer skills than I do. I also read where Faradina said that the content has to be fresh and good or Google will trash it so that tells me to really watch how many time I spin articles. It also says the writing has to be of good original content. But I have found that even if you pay a good writer is is hard to get any kind of quality.

I really liked your post on another thread JM Pruit on how little you use Ezines and it is not the all to end all in marketing. I have a few done and live but every month Ezine finds a reason to shut them down. I usually find a hundred articles written will just get a thirty page web site on track. Not counting what I write to post on blogs or other sites for back links.

I have already read a lot of complaints from Jetpack members who tried to make it work with out doing a better than average link wheel or link push. I also heard from a lot of successful marketers that a website needs about thirty pages to rank well this is the least they use. I still believe that the jetpacks are a great bargain because of the amount of work in the emails and quality template.

 

[jcdean]

I agree with what you are saying but I still think that the statement on the sales page for the link pack is a lot misleading. I have my site up and six articles spun to and on the website. But I would like to have fresh content for the squidoos and hubs to build a link push even a small one for each page of the site.

I believe I can write good enough to get it done myself but I have spent the last few years working double shifts to learn to spell then to type then to use the computer then to market. Then to buy a product that is supposed to be able to be set up in four hours and get me to cash. The I knew this was not going to happen for me from the start not even four days work I can still do it but I do not see most people doing this amount of work on a bought project that is supposed to be all there.

It may happen because a lot of people have way more computer skills than I do. I also read where Faradina said that the content has to be fresh and good or Google will trash it so that tells me to really watch how many time I spin articles. It also says the writing has to be of good original content. But I have found that even if you pay a good writer is is hard to get any kind of quality.

I really liked your post on another thread JM Pruit on how little you use Ezines and it is not the all to end all in marketing. I have a few done and live but every month Ezine finds a reason to shut them down. I usually find a hundred articles written will just get a thirty page web site on track. Not counting what I write to post on blogs or other sites for back links.

I have already read a lot of complaints from Jetpack members who tried to make it work with out doing a better than average link wheel or link push. I also heard from a lot of successful marketers that a website needs about thirty pages to rank well this is the least they use. I still believe that the jetpacks are a great bargain because of the amount of work in the emails and quality template.

This post is 411 words long. (Good length for an article / post)

It was very well written, though some would disagree with your conclusions you got your point a crossed very well.

I am am sure it was all original content.

I bet it only took you a few minutes to write.

Spinning dosen't take that long either when you have a few under your belt and you get in the groove.

Get some passion about this IM thing and let's do this man! I am pulling for you!

I will meet you in Oz, and we can see the Wizard together!

Just keep walking down the yellow brick road.

AJP rocks man, seriously it is worth 10 time the price.

 

[jmpruitt]

One thing you need to realize Mac is that the people you see on the forum are usually the people struggling to make it work. THe majority of the people I have met using the jetpacks have never been to the forum, and I know quite a few who took the training, followed it and are making some good progress, building their lists, and focusing their time on their sites, and they are already making money from it. So, don't judge the viability of the program based on what you see and hear in the forum.

That being said, I agree with what JC said. Look at what you are writing in the forum. that could be great content for an article if you were in the IM niche.

I spend a lot of time in forums within various niches, and I often get a lot of traffic to my sites. I save the posts that I write, and use them later on for articles, newsletters, ebooks, blog posts, and videos.

You really need to be personally involved in your niche for that to to work, but it is a great way to get to know people. I usually find that when someone asks a question in a forum, there are other people also searching for the answer to that same question.

 

[SethCzerepak]

You can't expect good price, good quality and a fast deadline...one of them has to be sacrificed....quality should always be the last, but unfortunately it's often the first to go.

 

[fastflipwebservices]

Another strategy, besides linking to your money pages, might be linking to a "next step" page. This can take one of two forms.

First, say you have a sequence of things to learn. Then the article you submit to EZA would link to the next step in the sequence. For example, your article that you are submitting to EZA might be about reading guitar chord charts. Well, you could link to a page on your site where you go over how to play some common chords.

Another "next step" style, that I got from my brother James, is to write a "what the problem is" article. Then, you would link to a page on your site that is a "why you should do something" page and the product you advertise on the page is the "how to do it". (I think I have this slightly wrong, but if he's still using this, James can explain it better.) It's another type of artcle progression that leads your reader where you want them to go.

Hey Gradyp good point...that's a strategy I'm going to use from now on. As for re-writing, I would agree with faradina, you do your best writing on the third or fourth re-write. It may be a pain, but it's well worth it when you're money site is gaining traction and converting sales.

I re-write for a content company online, and they require 5 re-writes of the same article so they can submit it to their spinner and sell to local businesses. Whenever I reluctantly sat down to write the first one, I thought it was terrible, but by the second and third one I was getting warmed up.

 

[mack45]

Back to this post again I am using the best spinner now and I find it has really helped me with my writing the huge supply of synonyms just rocks.
I still get my main site articles proofed and try to have them over seven hundred words. It has proven a success TT gives me a A+ On most all pages.

I am also working on using Senuke X but only with nested spun quality content. I reread and correct before sending the product to work.
It is not cheap but I have it under a $100 a month and could get Senuke X for under $50 if I want.
I am going to use Some of the local writers and already had Chrissi do a little writing but it is to early to tell of the benefit from a few hundred back links in a very competitive market.
I am writing more of my own content now to be sure it is right and I am going to have my site checked soon. Then I may have to many things to do before I start my second jetpack site.
\
I may have a local site build job for a woman's plus size clothing store so that will be a good test of my skills. This is getting really fun but I still have a family and full time job.
Yes I have found the second rewrite and third getting better and often junk the first just to retain the value. I do this because I try to write fast just like talking and being on a labor job for 40+ years my vocabulary is not that good unless you count the swearing . I can get a A+ in that but it does not sell LOL.
People ask why but they never see the pain we workers go through that is why I am learning marketing I can no longer do the work my body is wore out. Still on the positive side I have pain as a strong motivator.

 

[CaliberContent]

As far as rewriting goes, I agree that the third or fourth rewrite will probably be much better than the first couple. But when looking at the time spent to do that, personally I like to spin it via the Best Spinner or other program and just DO IT RIGHT. That's the key. Spend time to spin each word, phrase, sentence, even paragraphs. Then when you spin, it's actually readable, good quality, and you have 100% unique content. And best of all you get all of that hundreds of times if you just do it right at the start.

 

[Process]

Hi guys

Just a quick question on that if im spinning an article 500-600 words and using 3 sentences for each sentence and then using synonyms what is a reasonable amount of articles to spin from that..50,100, 200 etc?

Thanks!

 

[FastNoBull]

I never really liked the efficiency of article rewriters like The Best Spinner. Even when I use it, it's too time-consuming that I would much rather prefer to rewrite manually or write a new one from scratch.

 

[loveservice]

The Best Spinner is a great software that can spin unique and readable articles.

 

[sam2]

I agree that $10 for 7200 words is way too cheap. So what is the minimum rate which you would expect a good article?

I would say 7200 words should be given $50 for their royalty.I wonder if it available at 10$ then the quality may be very poor.

 

[newstart]

It may be possible to find a writer providing quality articles at a low fee. However, this newly discovered writer will at some point or another awaken to the true value of their service. Finding quality production writers is difficult and time consuming.

If you are going to operate your websites as a business you need to build the loyalty of your contract workers for your company. I have had students offer services at very minimal fees only to hear a response from me stating "No, that is too cheap. Your services are worth more than that." This statement on my part has created a loyalty between the two of us as the student realizes I am not out to cheat.

Having to locate quality writers every time you need an article written wastes a great deal of your time. You either invest the time into locating a quality writer or you settle for second rate work. What is the best use of your time?

Personally, I feel the loyalty of my fellow workers are important. I believe their feelings are reciprocal as they have been willing to drop whatever they are doing to assist me when I have needed their assistance.

Margene Smith

 

[Cecille L]

I agree that $10 for 7200 words is way too cheap. So what is the minimum rate which you would expect a good article?

I would say 7200 words should be given $50 for their royalty.I wonder if it available at 10$ then the quality may be very poor.

You always get what you paid for. Finding good writers who can give you high-quality, original articles are not only difficult to find, they cost a lot too. I agree with Margene, since good writers are hard to find, you need to build a sort of pool of people you can outsource some of your tasks to. If you find a good writer who can offer you his services at a reasonable amount, then stick with that writer. It saves you time and effort of finding a decent writer each time.

 

[wang_leslie]

Do yo have any suggestion of Article spinning software that people are using? I haven't used it but want to know if it is safe. How a bout spun articles? Won't they get hit by Google Panda?

Thanks for your time

 

[newstart]

I use "Rapid Rewriter" to spin articles. If the program is used properly it cannot be detected by humans or computer algorithms as a copy of an original. I devote more time to writing the 5 additional sentence options for each sentence than it takes to write the original article. Excluding research I write an original article in about 30-45 minutes. For the spun article sentences I may spend as much as six additional hours.

Using "Rapid Rewriter" the number of total words, sentences as well as paragraphs change periodically. My acceptance rates using AMA or UAW is 93% or greater.

Margene

 

[mhtconsultancy]

I'd prefer to rewrite an article in my own words even though it will take a longer time...

I've tried a few rewritter softwares, but they all use the same concept of replacing words with thesaurus substitutes... I don't think any rewritter software out there is advanced enough to actually change the sentence structure, sentence orders or summarise certain key points, are there? I'd like to be proven wrong though haha.

 

[Cecille L]

Hi mhtconsultancy,

We are on the same page here. I prefer to rewrite articles on my own, even though it is tedious. There is no better machine than the human brain. :)

Happy Holidays!

 

[hardnova01]

true.

I'm a writer myself and charge $2 per 100 words for general articles and for specialized stuff i.e. one that requires lots of research it can be as high as $5 per 100 words. Plus with cheap $1 per 1000 word article writers you get what you pay for...trash in most cases.

 

[internationalairambulances]

I agree.

 

[seo8]

The original content makes the very much perfect image in the market for any product.. so its good.. and true!

Thanks!

 

[Cecille L]

Coming up with new content gets more and more difficult as you build your article base. At some point you'll have to re-hash content you collect from various websites so a re-write is in order. After re-writing, you can further spin it for distribution to article directories.

There are various applications you can use for spinning like Article Spinner or The Best Spinner. You can do the writing and re-writing on your own, but if you find it too taxing you can outsource a writer from iWriter or oDesk, or eLance: 3 Good Reasons to try iWriter

Hope that helps. Have a good day!

 

[macdalangin]

Hi guys

Just a quick question on that if im spinning an article 500-600 words and using 3 sentences for each sentence and then using synonyms what is a reasonable amount of articles to spin from that..50,100, 200 etc?

Thanks!

@process- That would be a lot of unique spun content. You can have 200 or 300 for that.